No notes for slide. Lancaster Under-lever rook rifle. S/n 8237 Lancaster Under-lever rook rifle. S/n 8237, made circa 1898. Came as a scruffy example of a bored-out rook rifle!. But made as a Lancaster Oval Bore, no corners for black powder fouling to accumulate.
It is NOT a shotgun! Since upon examination “Non-Fouling Smooth oval rifling” can be just seen engraved on the right hand side of the breech, and “Charles Lancaster.
“ on the left hand side of the breech. All rather faded and rubbed but there under patina. “.360 Cal” on the left hand side of the action. Lancaster Oval Bore, developed by Charles William Lancaster – son of gun maker and barrel maker Charles William Lancaster and brother of Alfred Lancaster. Barrels made by Lancaster elder marked CL – as this example.
Charles William Lancaster, from a London gun and barrel making family. Charles William Lancaster developed the idea of Oval bored rifled barrel. Charles William Lancaster – son of gun maker and barrel maker Charles William Lancaster and brother of Alfred Lancaster. Barrels made by Lancaster elder and junior marked CL – as this example. Charles William junior and Alfred traded as separate companies for some years, after Charles William the elder’s death.
Charles William Lancaster – British Patent 1850: 13161, Machinery for oval boring 1851: 13454. Non Fouling Smooth Ova-bore Rifling: Idea was for the rifling to be formed in an ellipse, which rotated as rifling, but lacked any square edges or corners for black powder fouling to accumulate. Charles William Lancaster – British Patent 1850 number 13161 for of oval bore rifling; also patent for Machinery for oval boring in 1851 number 13454. Oval bore rifles made as double rifles, Farquharson falling block, side lever; in calibres from.297/250 to 450 and examples up to.600 are known. Oval bored rifling originally made.577 muzzle-loading rifle (Sappers & Miners). Lancaster Serial numbers: Rook & rabbit rifles had their own serial number range: 1870: 4328, 1875: 4714, 1880: 4949, 1885: 5497, 1890: 6406, 1896: 7548, 1901: 8700 Thomas Turner in particular (as well as other gun makers) had a licence to make (sell?) oval bored rifled guns. Examination of such guns will indicate whether made by the gunmaker named or by Charles Lancaster, as barrel makers, with CL stamped on the underside of the barrel.
Idea was for the rifling to be formed by an ellipse, which rotated as rifling, but lacked any square edges or corners for black powder fouling to accumulate. S/n 8237 – 1898 (Nigel Brown.) Oval bore rifles made as double rifles, Farquharson falling block, side lever; in calibres from.297/250 to 450.
Originally made.577 muzzle-loading rifle (Sappers & Miners). Lancaster Serial numbers: Rook & rabbit rifles had their own serial number range: 1870: 4328, 1875: 4714, 1880: 4949, 1885: 5497, 1890: 6406, 1896: 7548, 1901: 8700 Under-lever action – locking bolt slides forward to engage in the lump below the action. Made both hammer and hammerless, in this particular form, by Charles Lancaster under their own name.
The hammer is manually cocked and it is not self-cocking. Under-lever action – locking bolt slides forward to engage in the lump below the action. Made both hammer and hammerless, in this particular form, by Charles Lancaster as their own design. Considered to be a variation on Thomas Perkes patent of 1878: no.: 1968. Note ever screw position. Later TP design self-cocking.
TP worked with Hollands, legal battles over patent infringements with Westley Richards This action is considered to be a variation on Thomas Perkes patent of 1878 number: 1968. Note lever screw position in relation to the trigger guard and trigger axis pin.
There was also a later Thomas Perkes design for self-cocking. Thomas Perkes worked with Hollands over a number of years and had legal battles over patent infringements with Westley Richards. Webley version on left – slightly closer pivot point to trigger. Lancaster (Perkes) on right, further forward.
It is clear that this particular rifle has not been made to Webley patent design. Note the position of the cocking/locking lever axis pin in relation to the trigger axis pin: Webley on the left and Lancaster (Perkes) on the right.
With the Webley, cocking lever axis pin is much closer to the trigger axis pin whereas with the Lancaster, it is further forward. Charles William died 1878, the company passing to H A A Thorn. Traded at various addresses, 151 new bond street address. Company name Charles Lancaster & Co after 1878, but Charles Lancaster on rifle.
Bought-out by Grant & Lang circa 1932. Charles William Lancaster the younger died in 1878, the company passing to H A A Thorn who was already being groomed to take-over the company. It traded at various addresses and under various names over time. Company name Charles Lancaster & Co after 1878, but Charles Lancaster on rifle made circa 1898, in line with the company name change running 1882 - 1900. Were bought-out by Grant & Lang circa 1932 (later Atkin, Grant & Lang).
The firm had been established by 1811 under Charles William Lancaster – father of our protagonist, becoming well known as a barrel maker, including supplying Joseph Manton. By then (1826) he was established at 151 New Bond Street and was gun maker to Prince Consort by 1843, shortly before his death in 1845 (1847 according to Boothroyd). 1850-1854 Charles William Lancaster. 151 New Bond Street 1855-1861 Charles William and Alfred Lancaster.
151 New Bond Street 1861-1867 Charles William Lancaster. Psp go games list 2012 pdf. 151 New Bond Street & 2 Little Bruton Street 1862-1865 Alfred Lancaster. 27 South Audley Street. 1868-1871 Charles Lancaster (rifle manufacturers). 151 New Bond Street & 2 Little Bruton 1872-1878 Charles William Lancaster. 151 New Bond Street & 2 Little Bruton Street 1879-1881 Charles William Lancaster & Co. Lancaster & Co.
151 New Bond Street & 2 Little Bruton Street 1882-1900 Charles Lancaster (rifle manufacturers). 151 New Bond Street & 2 Little Bruton Street 1886-1892 Alfred Lancaster. 50 Green Street, Grosvenor 1893-1904 Alfred Lancaster. 151 New Bond Street 1906-1914 Charles Lancaster Ltd. 11 Panton Street, Haymarket. 1925-? Charles Lancaster Ltd. Mont Street 1932 Charles Lancaster Ltd.7 Bury Street.
Reinforcing plates – crack or additional strength? Selous’ rifle example. Of brass plate at the wrist to strengthen an otherwise weak wrist – essential if a gun was to be hard used in remote locations. Reinforcing plates – crack or additional strength? The wrist has a very well made and fitted pair of brass plates, securely screwed. Without removal, it is not clear whether the wrist of the stock is cracked or not.
There have been a number of examples of such plates being fitted not to repair a break – although this did happen – but as strengthening and reinforcement. Examples have been seen on Frederick Selous rifle as well as rifles from Rhodda of Calcutta. Whilst perhaps not as attractive as the well polished walnut wrist, it makes a great deal of sense if one were to depend upon a rifle for either defence or feeding, if one were to be in a remote location.360 No.5 Rook cartridge. Introduced between 1875 and 1880, loaded until circa 1940. Originally a black powder cartridge with 82 grain bullet or 125 grain (1050fps 310 ft lbs m/e) or 134 grain bullet (1025 fps 312 ft lbs m/e). Examples identified in 1909 edition of Charles Lancaster catalogue, for the single shot rifle. 360 No.5 Rook cartridge.
Introduced between 1875 and 1880, loaded until circa 1940. Originally a black powder cartridge with 82 grain or 125 grain bullet (1050fps 310 ft lbs m/e) or 134 grain bullet (1025 fps 312 ft lbs m/e). Examples identified in 1909 edition of Charles Lancaster catalogue, for the single shot rifle. Charles lancaster's oval bore rook & rabbit rifle. 1.
B Lancaster Rook & Rabbit Rifle By Chris Smith photographs courtesy of Wal Winfer & Tom Rowe. NOT a shotgun. Charles Lancaster Gunmaking family Barrel Makers: CL London based – various addresses Dies 1878, taken over HAA Thorn. Nowhere to hide. Sliding bolt action, under lever actuated.
Variations on a theme - Perkes. Not a Webley. Trading As. Repair or reinforce Selous’ rifle. Feeding the Beast. Sources:.
The London Gun Trade 1850 – 1920. A checklist of tradesmen. Joyce E Gooding & Peter A Scott-Edeson. British Single Shot Rifles: Volume 7.
Rook Rabbit & Miniature rifles: early types and hammer models. Wal Winfer & Tom Rowe. Directory of British Gun Makers.
A FINE CASED 12-BORE 'TWELVE-TWENTY' SIDELOCK EJECTOR BY CHARLES LANCASTER, 99 MOUNT STREET, BERKELEY SQUARE, LONDON, SERIAL NO. 14415 FOR 1926 With reblacked nitro chopperlump barrels signed in full on the tubes (raised dent in left tube), 2 1/2in.
S&w Gun Serial Numbers
(65mm) chambers, bored approx. 1/4 and 1/2 choke, blued scroll engraved toplever, automatic safety with gold-inlaid 'SAFE', bouquet and scroll engraved action with removable striker-discs, retaining some original case-hardened finish and signed 'CHARLES LANCASTER LONDON' in gold on the underside, bouquet and scroll engraved back-action locks each with gold-inlaid 'TWELVE-TWENTY' and retaining much original case-hardened finish, 15 1/4in. (38.5cm.) figured stock including 1/2in. Rubber butt-pad, and blued bouquet and scroll engraved trigger-guard, in original brass-cornered oak and leather case lined in crimson baize with some accessories including large Charles Lancaster oil bottle, the lid with black leather Charles Lancaster trade label with gilt lettering, the exterior initialled 'T.S.G.' (73.5cm.) barrels 5ib.
Hi again If a gunshop is a problem for you perhaps you have a pal in engineering. Any decent workshop will have the neccessary measuring gear. Basically you need to measure the internal diameter of each barrel at 9 inches from the breech face.
If the result is within 10thou of the proof mark, ie 0.729 - 0.739 inches and the bores are free of dents, rusting and pitting you can assume the gun is within proof. To view the barrels look through the barrels from the muzzle end towards a white suface in a good light, and by moving the barrels around towards the light you can reflect the light to all parts of the internal wall to check for any flaws.
Hope this helps Regards This message was edited by: gunbooknut on 2008-01-30 07:15. Thank you for all the info so far! I have finally taken some photos of the gun and am posting them in case they may be of interest. If anyone can shed any light on any of the markings please let me know. I notice that the maker's address on the top rib is 151 New Bond Street, but at the date of my gun's production the company were located at 11 Panton St. Would these have been stock barrels?
Dr Charles Lancaster Pa
Or: Maybe I am wrong but, have I been reading the serial number the correct way up? Sounds stupid but it could be O6118 instead of 81190. Experts please advise as I am now thoroughly confused! This message was edited by: Tiger on 2008-03-01 10:59. Hi John, Well!
This is a good lesson in seeing a gun before offering an opinion! This isn't a Webley, and the serial number is 06118. The gun was made in late 1888 for Lancaster, probably by Frederick Beesley or Cogswell & Harrison. It appears to have been made on the Beesley box lock action (operated by one spring in the action bar - patent No.
425 of 18 February 1884 patent use No. 876?), and the Beesley and E Harrison block safety patent (patent No. 11382 of 18 August 1884 patent use No. 876?): Beesley produced a few guns on the boxlock action, and a backlock version, but sold the rights for this and his safety to H A Thorn of Charles Lancaster, the gun becoming known in the trade as the 'Lancaster Wristbreaker'.
It did not prove popular, supposedly because of the difficulty in closing it but more probably because of the difficulty in servicing it - see. 0 and 00 prefixes to the Lancaster serial numbers indicated that the guns were made for Lancaster rather than by him. This gun was originally proved in London for black powder only, it would appear it has seen little use. It was proved for nitro powders only in 1962 (crossed swords with N and B and 1 in the angles is the Birmingham date mark). Probably owned by the same family for all this time!
One barrel is marked 13, both are usually marked! This means the barrel is a tightly bored 12 bore. The barrels are not marked 'CHOKE' so originally there was no choke (and there probably isn't any now!). What the 25 on the other barrel signifies, we don't know.
This message was edited by: Tiger on 2008-01-31 12:13. Tiger thank you, All previous opinions were of course based on my, and previous owners, mistakes. This gun was therefore registered with wrong serial no.
To the previous owner, my late uncle. I took the serial no. From his firearm certificate and it 'looked' ok on the gun, if viewed upside down! A salutory lesson for me and I apologize for wasting everyone's time but it was a most genuine error on my part.
Perhaps I should not become a firearms dealer! Anyway, my gun is now even older that I thought. Thank you and I will leave you in peace. Hi The numbers 13 and 25 stamped on the action and barrel flats are almost certainly an identification ( Repair N0.1325 ) number used by whichever Gunmaker handled the reproofing. In the 1970's there was much controversy in the guntrade about this practice as it was thought to deface the owners property. As a provincial gunsmith it was normal practice to submit a gun for reproof directly to the BPH if the gun appeared fit for reproof. If the viewer at the BPH rejected the gun for any reason the gunsmith would give instructions to the BPH to send the gun out to a Birmingham Gunmaker for the neccessary repair.
Hence the 1325. Most old guns have a number stamped under the barrels which indicates the diameter of the barrel 9 inches from the breech. Using 12 bore as an example: 13 equates to.710 inches, 13/1 (13 over 1) is.719, 12 is,729, 12/1 is.740. These numbers were used from 1887 to 1954 after which the actual diameter (.729) was used. From 1984 to 1986 the measurement in mm could be used (18.3), from 1986 18.5mm (.728!) became the standard. When people talk about tight boring they ususlly mean the degree of choke, but I was referring to the bore diameter.
Barrels with no choke were usually for a customer who wanted to use the gun for driven game or, more likely, especially in India, for use with solid ball cartridges - game shooting in jungle or dangerous game such as leopard, tiger and pig. This message was edited by: Tiger on 2008-02-02 16:31.
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